Kirby's Rainbow Resort

Welcome back, Kirby fans. We missed us.
It is currently November 19th, 2019, 8:42 am

All times are UTC-04:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page Previous 1 2
ide
Author Message
PostPosted: December 2nd, 2018, 6:55 am 
Offline
Water Drop Male
Water Drop

Joined: December 29th, 2015, 2:48 pm
Posts: 62
Favorite Kirby Game: Kirby's Dream Land 3
mrgameandpie wrote:
I've had this topic on my mind for a long time now. However, it is just now that I finally got all of my thoughts out on the matter! I made a big post about it on my tumblr here: http://mrgameandpie.tumblr.com/post/179 ... tty-bright

I'm probably gonna submit this for the Fan Thoughts section too. Still, I figure this area will probably be more likely to spark some discussion of the matter since while few people regularly use these forums these days, even fewer people respond to Fan Thoughts at all.


I have read all your article too, and it's very interesting.
There are a couple of things I have different opinions on, but overall I agree with what you are saying.
I don't really want a "darker" Kirby game, I'd prefer a "deeper" Kirby game, something that puts more effort in the artistic direction, with a more consistent in-game universe, with more focus on emotions such as many indie games (including 2D platformers) already do.

I want to point something about collectables:
I agree that unlocking music and color palettes for Kirby was very cool, but I think that having a true ending like in the Dark Matter Trilogy was even more satisfying.
Unlocking not-canon extras is a nice reward but having the ending of the game change if you collect a certain amount of items in the game makes it feel like your actions and your effort are actually worth something, you changed the ending by improving your skills and collecting more stuff.

I'm glad that alternate ending returned in Heroes in Another Dimension, with the 100 hearts thing. It was missing since Kirby 64 and it was something that I wanted back since a very long time.

But I must say, why not both? (to reference a certain meme). We can have a game with nice rewards for collectables, like Amazing Mirror, and at the same time, you get a different ending if you collect a certain amount of them.

Additionally, I liked how in Kirby's Dream Land 3 there were NPCs with little stories, and in order to get the collectables you had to help them. It in a way felt like Majora's Mask's Bombers diary. I'd like that concept to be expanded, it made the world of the game feel more lively.

When you talk about difficulty, you reference bosses and levels. I agree, though I want to add that to me the thing that really needs to become harder is the level design in platforming levels. Some bosses are already challenging and the only reason why they are easy to defeat is because Kirby has too much health and being hit doesn't mean much. You can just decrease Kirby's health a bit and the difficulty would change completely (think of the Metaknight fights, or pretty much all the bossfights from Robobot). What annoys me is that the levels are always too easy! Even the levels from the new DLC of Star Allies are easy for most of the time, they only get hard when you are trying to solve the puzzles, that are optional (kinda); you can complete the mode with 0 hearts if you want.

Also, about Kirby's personality, I think that's not completely true that he's just a kid. Recently, they have said that he has infinite power, and they have made implications hinting that probably he is some destructive god turned good due to positive energy.
What you say about the fact that he cares is totally true, but as a character, he is also special in different ways, compared to the others.
Reading that part I was thinking more of Sonic, who, without the emeralds, is just one of the many characters in the cast and not even the most powerful one (at least until Sonic Forces' bad writing ruined this completely), and he's special because he cares about those animals and the other characters.

-----------------------------------------------

Now about what KEEBY64 said about Kirby's voice, I have to say that I can see where he comes from.
I also find Kirby's continuous "HI!" a bit annoying and it makes me a bit uncomfortable when I'm playing a Kirby game with other people around me who hear those sounds and don't know what Kirby is.
I think that Kirby's voice should be toned down (I mean given less importance, not toned down literally) and used only in some specific situations, instead of everywhere in the game (including when you select a level and every time there is a jingle in the game).
I don't prefer the Kirby 64 voice because, well, it sounds like the voice of a little girl, and I think that it doesn't fit Kirby at all. For years I was confused about that voice when you start a level, I thought that it was Ribbon's voice all the times.
His current voice is more fitting, though I think that it's overused; also it seems that it became a trend to put annoying voices screaming all the time, with the most annoying being Francisca's water gun attack, but Susie and Haltmann aren't any better (I admit that Haltmann's scream at least fits the theme of him being crazy; I still wish he made other sounds other than just screaming all the time though). Since they were planning to give a voice to Adeleine as well, I'm glad that they scrapped the idea at the end, especially if she was going to scream like Susie each time she did the flail attack, or something.
Imagine if Luigi in Smash would scream "WAAAAHHHAHAHAAAAAHAHAHA" each time you perform a dash attack.
I liked the classic games where Kirby only did some little sounds occasionally, and I would like that version of Kirby to come back too. That's not just Kirby, I even find Mario annoying, with all his constant "YAHOOOO YIPPIIEEE WIIIHUUUUUU" since Mario 64. I'm sure that there's a way to keep those voices while still making them less annoying.

I wish that the "dream button" that turns Kirby into his classic version would also replace his voice with 8 bit sounds, but nope. I hope they bring back the button in future games, maybe from the start in the options, and I hope the next time they actually replace his voice with 8 bit sounds, I would instantly select it.


Top
   
ide
PostPosted: December 3rd, 2018, 12:54 am 
Offline
Shooting Star A_mystery
Shooting Star
User avatar

Joined: February 1st, 2016, 8:10 pm
Posts: 1111
Favorite Kirby Game: Kirby's Dream Land 3
Location: It's crazy that I'm using this like an "About Me" section, right? Anyways, I lost interest in Kirby.
Now that I think about it, it’s not that Kirby needs to be darker. It’s that the current era of Kirby games is so messed up(exaggeration of Kirby’s voice and other voices, unnecessary “””lore””” that makes everyone focus too much on the “””story”””, stages so easy that there’s NO challenge and it’s not even fun anymore(insert someone saying the “it doesn’t have to be hard to be fun” excuse here), inserting content into the game that should’ve been there at launch since it’s barely enough content to be considered an update(Other games are doing this too. I blame Splatoon for starting this. No wonder why I hate that game....), also unnecessary nostalgia pandering, and the infamous forced gimmicks), that at this point, the next game needs to start over from scratch. No RtDL engine next game, please. Even the awful anime era was at least unique with every game and knew to stop with 3 games using the NiDL engine(I’m pretty sure Amazing Mirror used NiDL’s engine. If Squeak Squad didn’t use the engine, it at least used the graphics. There are three games with the NiDL engine, released in the span of about 4 years. Comparing that to FOUR games using the RtDL engine, released in the span of about 6 and a half years.... ouch.).

_________________
Remind me to put something here later...

If you’re ever feeling lonely, watch this video:
https://youtu.be/mie-3U3H3iY


Top
   
ide
PostPosted: January 1st, 2019, 7:16 pm 
Offline
Water Drop Male
Water Drop
User avatar

Joined: February 27th, 2012, 6:12 pm
Posts: 64
Favorite Kirby Game: Kirby's Adventure
KEEBY64 wrote:
Now that I think about it, it’s not that Kirby needs to be darker. It’s that the current era of Kirby games is so messed up(exaggeration of Kirby’s voice and other voices, unnecessary “””lore””” that makes everyone focus too much on the “””story”””, stages so easy that there’s NO challenge and it’s not even fun anymore(insert someone saying the “it doesn’t have to be hard to be fun” excuse here), inserting content into the game that should’ve been there at launch since it’s barely enough content to be considered an update(Other games are doing this too. I blame Splatoon for starting this. No wonder why I hate that game....), also unnecessary nostalgia pandering, and the infamous forced gimmicks), that at this point, the next game needs to start over from scratch. No RtDL engine next game, please. Even the awful anime era was at least unique with every game and knew to stop with 3 games using the NiDL engine(I’m pretty sure Amazing Mirror used NiDL’s engine. If Squeak Squad didn’t use the engine, it at least used the graphics. There are three games with the NiDL engine, released in the span of about 4 years. Comparing that to FOUR games using the RtDL engine, released in the span of about 6 and a half years.... ouch.).

* Voices: Eh. As far as side characters go, I actually think it's a nice touch.

* Lore: Completely disagree here. It would be a problem if it took up more of the campaign mode, but most of the attention it gets is in the pause menus, where most players are likely to walk right past it. I personally think the story-building is interesting, and the boss card descriptions IMO are a good way to do it so that it isn't overbearing on the gameplay experience. (That being said, I do think that Kirby 64 was the best at story-telling. It would be nice to see HAL go back to the "silent movie" format for their cutscenes.)

* Challenge: Yeah, if I didn't start this bandwagon, then allow me to say I've been on board for a while now. The thing I like about Kirby's Adventure's enemies is that I'm actually kind of scared of them sometimes. Attacks from enemies like Blade Knight, Laser Ball, and Pengi were very clear and needed to be respected; miniboss attack patterns were deliberate and scaled with level difficulty, and the Meta-knights were excellent "elite" baddies. The problem with the new games is that enemies became much slower and weaker, but also that Kirby was given more health and a guard function. The bosses for the most part have been okay, but I can't be the only one who's kind of annoyed by the fact that their attack patterns are the same every time -- speed running, my foot.

* DLC: Mixed feelings about this. Sometimes I feel like downloadable content is a slippery slope, but I think the way that HAL has handled this is acceptable. If there weren't DLC updates, then what we would probably have gotten instead was a less polished overall package, a release delay by almost a year, or none of the additional content whatsoever. I think the "paid ingame content" gimmick is much more obnoxious, and after playing Kirby Clash Deluxe, I think I'd prefer HAL avoid that route entirely.

* Engine: Engines can be modified, so there's nothing wrong with reusing an engine if you're not afraid to make tweaks. The RtDL engine's problems mostly come down to bad enemy and level design. And yeah, Amazing Mirror, NMID, and Squeak Squad are all derived from the same engine, from what I can tell. Personally though, my favorite engine is from the original Kirby's Adventure, quite simply because Kirby's air momentum is carried over from his ground speed. You can run and jump off of a downward slope and get a sick speed boost from it. Why these physics didn't carry over into the vast majority of the games after that (including the GBA remake) is totally beyond me!


Top
   
ide
PostPosted: January 30th, 2019, 2:36 am 
Offline
Water Drop Male
Water Drop
User avatar

Joined: September 27th, 2008, 9:46 pm
Posts: 32
Favorite Kirby Game: Kirby & the Amazing Mirror
Location: Texas
Oh hey, I never said anything about the responses here, did I?

So, Dream Land 2/3/Crystal Shards collectibles vs Amazing Mirror/Squeak Squad collectibles. Technically, Squeak Squad DID have both, with those seven star keys you needed to collect to enter the final two worlds, and this is pretty solid I'd say, maybe just make them needed for the secret final boss rather than the entirety of the final two worlds.

Most elements regarding bosses/enemies being too easy could be fixed with this emphasis on collecting upgrades. Both Amazing Mirror and Squeak Squad had a couple health upgrades already, just increase the number of possible upgrades, starting Kirby with a base health level quite low compared to most of the series, making collecting these upgrades that much more important for those who want the high number of hits available in most games. The base platforming challenges/enemy threat could also certainly be made more intense. These days most enemies attack so slowly/infrequently they pose no danger at all, speed them back up to Amazing Mirror levels and we've got something again!

While it may not be entirely true that Kirby isn't notably special at all, the fact of the matter is we do see other characters who can do the stuff he's capable of. Gooey, Keeby, Shadow Kirby, they can all copy abilities just like Kirby can, and of course all of these abilities ARE copied, single ability runs are typically possible in most games meaning the original owners of those abilities should also be able to handle these adventures. Kirby is the only one going out there to defeat these gods and monsters, but it does seem like many others COULD if they actually tried.

I don't have an issue with character voices whatsoever. Not as they currently sound/are used, anyway. If Kirby and co were going to get full speaking roles as I've suggested, some voice changes would probably be in order, but otherwise everything is fine. I could say the same about the lore and DLC, really. If anything in this deeper Kirby game I'd want them to EXPAND on the lore they've set up over the years, finally tie things together and explain just what the heck is going on. I do think keeping the Heroes In Another Dimension mode as DLC released practically a year later was kind of disappointing, Star Allies could've really used a mode like that at release, but otherwise the addition of the Dream Friends was a fantastic reason to keep coming back to the game.

As for the engine, there really isn't a reason to get rid of it. The controls are great and the number of copy abilities and Dream Friends they've added with it display a solid amount of potential for basically anything they may want to do. Nothing I've mentioned previously would warrant an engine shift, rather a shift in how the story and challenges are designed, which this engine seems perfectly capable of facilitating. Ultimately, I see nothing creating an entirely new engine would add unless they wanted to fundamentally change how Kirby games are played, like making a fully 3D game, but that's not what I'm suggesting and is a different discussion entirely.


Top
   
ide
PostPosted: February 5th, 2019, 1:36 am 
Offline
FIRE FIRE FIRE MWAHAHAHA Male
FIRE FIRE FIRE MWAHAHAHA
User avatar

Joined: June 1st, 2005, 5:19 pm
Posts: 703
Favorite Kirby Game: Kirby Super Star
Location: Yes
To be honest, that's not the first thing that comes to my mind when I think "How can Kirby be improved?".

A genuine hard mode that isn't just "lol you have half a health bar", a longer game that can't be 100%'ed in less than a day, A PLAYABLE SILICA... Besides, the game is already dark with a candy-coated exterior; no need to ruin that charm.

_________________
Insert flashy stupid signature here


Top
   
ide
PostPosted: April 11th, 2019, 2:25 pm 
Offline
Biospark Female
Biospark
User avatar

Joined: January 29th, 2019, 8:58 pm
Posts: 2532
Favorite Kirby Game: Kirby's Epic Yarn
Location: Royal Road
Hantho wrote:
No. Especially not in the way you described such a game. Kirby being cheerful is an iconic part of his character, and I believe you can't just change something iconic without a ulterior motive.

Being light and soft is a part of the series charm. Play, uh, Kirby and the Rainbow Curse, for example. The plot's nigh nonexistent, but the clay artwork is beautiful, the trophy discriptions are funny, and Elline's Diary's art brings a smile to the face of anyone I show it to. I don't think the game would have been as enjoyable if all of those things weren't in the game so that it could be more dark and edgy. And a lot of the above applies to most other games in the Kirby series. A change in tone just isn't worth it.

There are other series that can be dark and edgy, just not this one.

This.

Mass Attack (y'know, the game where Kirby actually DIES when you lose all your lives... i.e this sprite's existence --> :angel: ) was plenty dark and edgy for me. Like, it was super dark for a Kirby game. That and the Dark Matter trilogy, and whatever dark aspects Meta brings... I think that's good enough, since the series is kind of MEANT to be happy overall, and just hide some darkness here or there (Zero & Soul bosses, anyone?).

I actually like the deathscreech they gave to Marx Soul, though, even if it nearly gave me a cardiac arrest the first time.

_________________
——————Image——————
..*.:* .☆ *..•. Just your friendly neighborhood jester grape~ .•..* ☆. *:.*..
ImageImageImage


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page Previous 1 2

All times are UTC-04:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited
[ GZIP: Off | Load: 2.04 ]